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Revealing Protest Against Beijing Olympics

Posted by Joerg Wolf on

This is my favorite quote of the year so far: "Would we have allowed Nazi Germany to host the Olympics?"

This awesome statement was found on a protest sign in San Francisco. German Joys and Andrew Sullivan have a picture.

This statement is fascinating on so many levels. Not just because the author has not heard about the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. And not just because of his/her comparison between Nazi Germany and China. I find the statement revealing because the author apparently thinks that it is the United States as Master of the Universe that gets to decide who is allowed to host the Olympics.

Apparently it is not just US presidents and senators (and plenty of slightly megalomaniac "experts" without any military experience) who boldly declare stuff like "we must not allow Iran to develop a nuclear weapon" or similar phrases along the lines of "We must not allow evil doers doing evil stuff." Apparently even the usually pretty left-leaning protestors in San Francisco consider the United States to be a hyperpower.

Actually, right now President Bush is not making any bold statements regarding China. All of a sudden, he prefers quiet diplomacy. What a change from this second inauguration speech three years ago.

Over at Atlantic Community, we have recommended a few press commentaries regarding China and the Olympics:

• Chinese Outcry Against the Western Media: "The Chinese believe that Tibet cannot be the real reason for Western criticism of China and call for boycotts."
• The Positive Side of Chinese Nationalism: "The Olympics have inspired Chinese nationalism which will lead to increased civil engagement and awareness of the responsibilities and rights of citizenship."
• Will the Chinese Change International Institutions?: "In the past, the World Bank, like the IMF, was traditionally dominated by American, Europeans, and their neoliberal agenda. However as American financial pillars are now underpinned by Chinese money, it has become impossible to ignore Chinese interests."

UPDATE: Megalomania and arrogance is of course not limited to the US, but also widespread in Europe, where declarations about "not allowing" Iran, China and others to do something are even more ridiculous considering our real political influence and military power. I just wanted to clarify that this post is not meant to bash the United States, but to criticize stupid and arrogant people, who overestimate their country's power. These people are a danger to their country.

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franchie on :

I see more their ignorance or stupidity here : the fact is that Berlin did host the Olympic Games and that China is going to host them either, and that they have no power to empech them. They learnt history with Walt Disney anyway from the hippies dreamers; they also tell that sort of BS for us ; it's not more than once that I have been treated "ignorant", "idiot", "arrogant", especially when I tried to retablish the evenments in their context.

Sandy Marthew on :

The Chinese believe that Tibet cannot be the real reason for Western criticism of China and call for boycotts. Western media(From US, UK,German ,France) fabricate "Crack-down". The death toll of 140 Tibetan victims during Lhasa riots can not be proved by anyone! The victim-list from Chinese Government can be verified. All the evidences from Anti-cnn.com show us what a biased and manipulated propaganda exists in western world.Western media seems give no respect to history , give no respect to its journalist belief on objectiveness and justice.While CNN racist rhetorics against Chinese leave a sad trail in China and leave a smear on itself. I disgust western media clumsy and disgraceful presentation during its Lhasa coverages. I appreciate US strategy and its implementation on Tibet issue, every seasoned politician can understand such game. As to ordinary western people , I respect their compassion towards Tibetan people. THere is no question China should improve Tibet economy grant more freedom and liberty to Chinese people (including Tibetan people). But don't push such benign propostiones based on western media's misinformation. I had to say western people seldomly know Tibet history and its status quo.

Bree Von de Comp on :

[i] They learnt history with Walt Disney anyway from the hippies dreamers; they also tell that sort of BS for us ; it's not more than once that I have been treated "ignorant", "idiot", "arrogant", especially when I tried to retablish the evenments in their context. [/i] They also learn history from Hollywood . American Indian was described as cunning and highly aggresive people. How many people in western world question that Hollywood model for American Indian . Classic western movie ,Classic American Indian illusioned "slur" , Classic Hollywood disgraceful manipulation.

Chisa Fujioka on :

Olympic spirits should not be interpreted on one's own behalf The International Olympic Committee's athletes' commission said it was saddened the torch relay had 'not had the peaceful passage it deserves". "Violent protests around the Olympic torch are totally counter to the values the torch stands for. The torch, which does not belong to any country but rather to the world, represents Olympic values -- nothing else, and should be allowed to pass peacefully," the commission said in a statement. Chisa Fujioka(from Japan) - #7 - 2008-04-25 07:35 - (Reply) Japenese rightest-wing strength gathered to block Olympic torch relay Japan leg. They just finished their Yasukuni Shrine worship rites 2 days ago. Now they were moved to "welcome" the Olympic torch in their own way in the name of "supporting Human rights". It's ironic these guys are the steadfast hardliner on issue like "Comfort women" "Slaughter in Nanking and South-East Asian coutries". Like Madam (Jeanne Marie) Roland said "Freedom , how many crimes commited in your name". "Boycott olympic game " gradually evolve into a farce . Different people find their roles to participate it. They all want to get something from the so-called boycott. Considering Chinese government earns almost all Chinese people's support,I guess Olympic game itself becomes the only loser. You are right about something ! That is a game beyond Chinese government's capability. although there exist backfire, I believe China will make progress in human rights. The side -effect of such anti-China movements.

Marry Anderson on :

[i] Will the Chinese Change International Institutions? [/i] China has no such power! Western world grasp almost all the resource to safeguard its interests. I'll say the current International Institutions unmistakably tilt to western world. In economy, The price of natural resource was devaluated by western world on purpose for decades(count from the end of coloniztion), African states even sell all their natural resources ,can still not meet the basic demands on improving their people's life standards. When new power like CHina and india emerges, The price of such natural resources increase sharply and African states now experience unexpected prosper in economy. Their almost 5%GDP progess is really achievements for every western powers. (Maybe BUSH ,the most unpopular president in US history, can learn something from his African counterparts) best regards to Joerg

Lynet on :

Africa export more than 80% of its petrolum to outside world. Europe possess 36% share ,America 33% , China 7.8% , I don't think China represent a significant presence there. No need to blame them as neo-colonialist . if exploit do exist,there is no big difference from Bejing and from western powers.

Joe Noory on :

The thing about the protesting bufoons who irrationally think America so "all-powerful" as to be able to disallow the Olympics, is that they're usually the same people irrationally who think it all-evil too.

Edie on :

US is the only superpower, grasp almighty resources to achieve its goal. When it decided who is evil , then the powerful propaganda machines starts-up, It's rivals had few thing to counter-act those negative effects. In many US people's mind , They can decide anything and everything , If someone want to counter balance US powers , US will kick it out (Even United Nation). It'a pity President Bush was singled out for its arrogance there, There are millions of 'Bush-mind-like' people stand behind him.

Joe Noory on :

I have never heard so much speculative nonsense in my life. If anything of the sort is the case, that broad swaths of teh public are arrogant but somehow conspire in evil, and no-one else in the work does any sort of harm, then [b]prove it,[/b] becuase I'd certainly like to see that. I realise that it's emotionally satisfying to find a strawman, but not only is it patently untrue, the broad growth of such a notion makes wherever you live vulnurable to a dangerous delusion that will take yuor eye off of the ball.

TO_that_JOE on :

oh! really ? Joe! seems you are poorly informed on many things (If not on everything).Do you know a delegate of high-level Arabian officials and journalists from independent Arabian media (like Al Jazeera English) meet in Beijing recently. They reach a meaningful agreement that they will help each other to let the world know the voice outside western world. They think that will be helpful to let people get close to the truth. What a coincidence, your fellow citizens ,Minister who is in charge of Information and Culture complain about distortion and prejudice against its people and grant favor to Israel. What you gonna say to your palestine "governor" ,What you gonna say to the Syrian,Saudi Arabian,Algerian high-profile officials. Do you think they dish out those "nonesense" for amusements. On the contrary, I respect them and think you should tone down your voice. You know little about Arabian history and US history. It's ok you pursue your own American Dream. But don't let that attempt and implementation with the expense of your motherland and its neighbor states images. Your tone make people think you know anything and everything about Arabian and American people. But you actually does not,especially when you were influenced by some biased media. It's no use boasting something you know little. It's easy to criticize others yet hard to face our true nature. Your arbitrary allegations will not make you a sagacious prophet, But a ... P.S key word "propaganda machine" From NPR listening program(long long time ago) The White House today denied that it planted misleading stories in the American news media as part of a plan to topple Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi. The Washington Post reported this morning that stories were leaked this summer alleging Qaddafi was resuming his support for terrorist activities, even though National Security Adviser John Poindexter knew otherwise. Today, White House spokesman Larry Speakes said Poindexter denied the administration had involved the media in an anti-Qaddafi campaign but Speakes left open the possibility a disinformation campaign was conducted in other countries.

To_That_Joe on :

British meida "Guardian" disclose something about British government 's manipulation on zimbabwe images. It question whether British government is qualified to teach zimbabwe, (British's former colonial state) a lesson on Human rights and good governance. British ruled over zimbabwe for decades, there is not much objection from the whole western world. Those extremists who advocate White-superiority indulged in zimbabwe for more than 15 years,leaving hundreds of thousands native zimbabwe black victims. Ther still echo with no condemnation from Western world. When Mugabe emancipate zimbabwe people and grant them lands and other resources , Its government then was and is thunder-stormed by human rights warriors.Seems such bunch of "heros" surmmoned from every backstreet corner ,popped up and attended such politic party. I know Mugabe's policy have large rooms for improvements. But do they (western powers) give Mugabe a chance to fairly develop its econonmy. Do USA government give castro cuba ,Che Guevara's Latin America a chance to achieve their goal. Taking side during Cold war is their only possible choice. If they take the wrong side, Western media 's propaganda will let them know what a totally wrong decision they made. Demonizing zimbabwe , cuba, then implementing sanction. isolating such countries from outside. Then criticize their policy as the only reason to lead to their country's poverty. That game is a beatn track for western powers, but i will say it is not graceful anyway! Joe! why not google search by yourself? You can find millions of articles concerning disinformation campaign from western powers.I don't doubt you can find such information from internet, but I am not sure whether you gonna ignore whole these things then ask me for more proofs again? Are you ready for some information you don't like to see or hear? I doubt it.

Joe Noory on :

Interesting that you still think I'm a palestinian when I'm not, and that as an American and an Arab, that I should no nothing of either, that we have a "minister" governing Palestine, and that a meeting by Arab journalists in Beijing should be seen as a sort of unquestioned "truth", acceted blinly as such so long as it is againt America. Are you an Arab or an American? Does some feature of your attitude entitle your assumtions to go unquestioned? Does that great, trustworthy being of your nature really need to change its' name in a blog every 10 minutes? In spite of some anger you have for me, for the life of me, I can't understand a word you're saying because it's so incredibly unclear. If you found an old piece on NPR about Qadaffi, what in heavens' name do you want me to do about it? What on earth is that dramatic discovery of yours' mean? That I'm personally responsible for the action of that man? Grow up. If you hate what's going on in the world, directing your anger at me won't change it. As to your point about the American population, I wonder how you can make such a foolish assumtion if you don't live here. I'm not going to address anything you say any more. It's a waste of time to take teh time to convince an adolescent bigot who throws out opinions as facts and get's angry when he discovers that there may be people who don't agree with him. The very idea that you think all 300million of us are identical and have opinions that permit your ego to believe that you're presenting some kind of great wisdom is laughable.

Lynnet Scorval on :

In western history, when a power rise to the center of the stage, It will squeeze the room for other western powers. So German's rise is not allowable for Britain and USA. Britain and its US allies do everything to defer German's rise. It is hard to say that German people is an aggressive people by instinct. I guess under the situation of 1910s then 1930s, there must happen another kind of conflicts (even large-scale war)between new emerging powers and old colonial states like Britain. Retrospect to that period of history before 1936,Olympic is not a big deal to every politicians in western world.They colonized almost half of the world. What moral ground they stands to boycott 1936 Berlin Olympic. Britain and USA got other way to choke Prussia to death. At that time Britain and USA do not possess the overwhelming power against German , So the bullshit of "Would we have allowed Nazi Germany to host the Olympics?" is totally "break wind on those history facts".

Elisabetta on :

When you all die, Mr. Fowler is waiting to roger you to death...

Marry Anderson on :

Are you a witch or wizard? WHo is "Mr. Fowler"? And what your DaVinci-code gets at? Everyone gonna die . I 'll die witness China's progress . It is a good thing for me. You gonna die witnessing US hegemony decline. It's a sad thing for you. I can not comfort you with empty words. Maybe Mr. Fowler can give you some hint , some oracle. You absoultely make an appointment with His Highness.

Elisabetta on :

Mr. Fowler is, of course, the author of the seminal and definitive grammar of the English language.

Pat Patterson on :

Yikes, I thought it was a another name for Mr. Scratch. But I actually like my inerpretation better.

To_DEAR_Elisabetta on :

Sorry, I conjectured 'Mr Fowler' here. Mr Fowler is ,of course, one of the most talented linguist in our time.I have no excuse for my ignorance on his marvoulous linguistic work. If I read his grammar book before I would not make so many errors (esp.in grammar)in my posts. I don't know why Paterson did not know Mr Fowler either.but I will blame him for this.It is of course beyond Mr paterson and mine knowledge and understanding. I bet other guys like Joe ,Franchie,Don got no clue on 'Mr Fowler' too. Thanks again! Elisabetta.

Pat Patterson on :

That's actually quite good I had to think about that reference for a while until I remembered that He has hundreds of useful and descriptive names.

Lynet scorval on :

You mean Mr Fowler is fabricated by our friend Elizabeth, There is no background information about it. I guess Elizabeth had better way to vent his angry towards me . Using such a very confused calling lead to some un-necessory conjecture. I suggest we all focus on the thread itself. No need to argue on my nickname anymore. Some articles ,I forwarded to this forum , should be named as it is , It's a kind of respect. Some articles distorted truth , I use her(his) name to propagate something right,something true. Because those names is handy for use. I here claim that there is no any obligation for Joerg ,the Webmaster of this forum. He warned me several time not using other people's name for possible misleading, I am sorry for any possible confusion to anybody here, but no appologies to those people I use their name by accident, It show my respect or the opposite. He(she) can charge me if he think I deliberately immitate him for profits (or what else) P.S Paterson, You are not farmiliar with those reporters from British, Japan, France. You google search their background for fun. That is not helpful to your points' promoting.

Pat Patterson on :

No, when one posts the same tired old slogans and then uses the name of someone else that is simply laziness on the first part and thievery on the second. Take a clue from some of the more rational posts here, keep it short, no colors, learn how to link (Joerg has posted the steps at the bottom of the comments page) stay on topic and if you are Chinese then get used to the idea that everybody in the world may not love or even like you and might even say nasty things about you.

to_Mr_paterson on :

Dear Patterson,you seems so emotional here ! Calm down please! You had better get recovery from 'Name-Gate' things. It is a trivial thing and I had explain to you why I use different name here. If you focus on it every time,you gonna miss other people's wonderful posts. It's worthless ,Rights? The best way for you is totally ignore me , ignore my posts by all means. Given that , your posts will not immunize from my tiring comments. You openly air your views here, I have rights to agree or disagree. You should not use my nickname as a shield to escape your responsiblity(prove your points by facts and logically reasoning ).My nickname is my issue and your biased historic view is your own problem. Don't mix them up. I admit my signature's periodically changing leads to some trouble for you. You may read some articles I write or recite from somewhere,before you actually know it is from me. So posts in different name will be very helpful to let people(esp like you and JOe) read something they don't wanna here. That kind of rejecting-inclination prevent you from gaining a kind of balanced views . I never claim my view is absolutely right. My counter-western media view can be an addition,a contrast to western media. So don't be pugnacious to my presence here. As to the color setting for posts. You know Color lend magic to plain texts. IF graphic can be used , it will be better for presentation. using black color texts is your preference , not trends of the cyberspace. I know some computer experts enjoy use keyin commands in DOS or UNIX environments, enjoy type in CAD commands instead of use Menu or toolbox icon to accomplish the same things. They have reasons because their operation are effective. But you have no excuse for your preference. Maybe you are too old to make any change. You ,to some extent , fear changes in your life.

Salute_to_Pater on :

[i] if you are Chinese then get used to the idea that everybody in the world may not love or even like you and might even say nasty things about you. [/i] I get used to those derogative calling from western world . When I gave up the nickname 'Merkel' ,I want to use "Pekingese" to login this forum. I took a look on E-dictionary and found absurdity there. 'Pekingese' or 'Pekinese' means a kind of dog. Then I am trembling to check 'Shanghai' , another recognizable Chinese city to western world. What a nonesense 'Shanghai' and 'Shanghaier' is linked with kidnaping, enslaving thing. I don't know why such explanation occurs in western dictionary. They existed before Communist party took power in China in 1949. It's definitely not a anti-western world rhetorics from China Communist Party. I guess my french friend 'Franchie' can told you those famous derogative solgans 'Chinese and Dogs prohibit', which appeared in Shanghai france community. This community located in some 'leased area' which share extraterritoriality(Exemption from local legal jurisdiction），another colonial work from western world. So Paterson , I will not freak out on such kind of insults. please don't freak out on Chinese people's fire on western media's distortion Tibet coverages either. You had dished out so many derogative words towards me and my country, Please don't disguise your anger towards me . That will make you vulnerable to the question of your credibility and fedility .

Mrs. Von De Comp on :

Olympic spirits should not be interpreted on one's own behalf The International Olympic Committee's athletes' commission said it was saddened the torch relay had 'not had the peaceful passage it deserves". "Violent protests around the Olympic torch are totally counter to the values the torch stands for. The torch, which does not belong to any country but rather to the world, represents Olympic values -- nothing else, and should be allowed to pass peacefully," the commission said in a statement.

Chisa Fujioka(from Japan) on :

Japenese rightest-wing strength gathered to block Olympic torch relay Japan leg. They just finished their Yasukuni Shrine worship rites 2 days ago. Now they were moved to "welcome" the Olympic torch in their own way in the name of "supporting Human rights". It's ironic these guys are the steadfast hardliner on issue like "Comfort women" "Slaughter in Nanking and South-East Asian coutries". Like Madam (Jeanne Marie) Roland said "Freedom , how many crimes commited in your name". "Boycott olympic game " gradually evolve into a farce . Different people find their roles to participate it. They all want to get something from the so-called boycott. Considering Chinese government earns almost all Chinese people's support,I guess Olympic game itself becomes the only loser.

Pat Patterson on :

Pink and stealing the name of a well known Japanese reporter. Hardly provides convincing arguments other than indicating a very lonely Chinese teenager in a cybercafe hoping the chicks will notice his sang froid.

Marry Anderson on :

Sorry,Paterson. Pink is not a good color for display, Azure is worse. Like the barbarian aborigines "Friday", I can not grasp the meaning of English. Would you please give me help as Robinson Crusoe did to "Friday"? Thanks a lot! I use color "chocolate" , Let's see its effects! Cooperation instead of confrontation EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson, in Beijing to launch regular high-level talks on the two sides' trade gap and other economic disputes, urged an end to mutual threats of boycotts. "We need to live with China, work alongside China, and gain China's commitment to working on the issues between us," he said by telephone. Comment: A constructive attitude towards China. only this can propell china's progress in Human rights and democracy.Single out Tibet issue and try to dismember China will failed eventually. Salute to Henry Kinsinger Salute to Zbigniew Brzezinski Thumb to Nicolas Sakozy (down-side thump)

Christian Poncelet on :

Cooperation instead of confrontation EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson, in Beijing to launch regular high-level talks on the two sides' trade gap and other economic disputes, urged an end to mutual threats of boycotts. "We need to live with China, work alongside China, and gain China's commitment to working on the issues between us," he said by telephone. Comment: A constructive attitude towards China. only this can propell china's progress in Human rights and democracy.Single out Tibet issue and try to dismember China will failed eventually. Salute to Henry Kinsinger Salute to Zbigniew Brzezinski Thumb to Nicolas Sakozy (down-side thump)

Joerg - Atlantic Review on :

Dear Kids, please don't take LSD and spray-paint the comment section. Black is beautiful and the best color to read comments. I will now try to change your colors, but please don't mess with the BBCode again. Thanks

to_Dear_Joerg on :

I ignore "Kids" calling because of my respect to your authority. I am not good at English .I hope you can understand some mistakes I made So I will not use irrecognizable color in my posts. i test Green ,blue ,magenta, chocolate,brown are all wonderful color for post presentation. Do you allow people here use those color. I guess participants here will agree with me that using color to distinguish posts is a good idea.(I know they don't like my posts anyhow)

Joerg - Atlantic Review on :

Your English is very good. No, several other readers have complained about colors as well. I got half a dozen emails in the last two days. And they have complained about your use of different names. And names of existing persons. I am sure you have a beautiful name, why don't you use it here? If your concern is to distinguish blog comments, then you should always use the same name, so that everybody knows who wrote what. Every comment has a different number, thus you do not need to use different colors for each comment.

Joerg - Atlantic Review on :

Dear fellow from Beijing (according to your IP address) Here are some basic rules for this blog and for all other blogs since it is common nettiquette: Every commenter may only use one name. Do not steal someone else's name. Don't annoy me with halucigenic colors. Use a real email address. Like it or not, you are an ambassador of your country. Your behavior here reflects on your people's and country's image.

to_Dear_Joerg on :

To_Dear_Joerg: I planed to leave this forum about several days ago. because I found participants here are not ons-sided and are not apt to accept the image western media described to them. Since I disagreed with my own governments on many things , I need not defend for Chinese government. What i did here is safeguard Chinese people's rights. You bring two topics closely related to my country, That let me stay here till now. I guess after some meaningless quarrel with Paterson,Joe Noor, I will leave. Before I left, I want to know Why you permit me to vent my discontent towards western media and western world. Seems such posts was prohibitted by BBC or washington Post. Even In China when you login to state-owned media or those powerful independent media. if you criticize france president or US Secretary of State, those posts will be denied from publishing. Because someone think that is not helpful to solidify friendship with those countries. I can only access those chinese grass-root website to vent my angry on western media and western politicians. Thanks for your tolerance on my misconducts.

To_dear_Joerg on :

The rule you published here soundes very reasonable except the color setting for dispaly. Becuase I gonna leave I will not question them anymore.(including the rule against using different name by one guy) Mr. Joerg, I totally disagree with your following words. [i] Like it or not, you are an ambassador of your country. Your behavior here reflects on your people's and country's image [/i] I can represent myself,only myself. I did not take pride in my "play" here. In order to attact other people's attention, I exaggerate my hatred, exaggerate civilization conflicts. I think there is no other efficient way to let westerners take heed of what Chinese say and think. Your above opinion make no sense somehow. Especially when i enumerate some famous yet very disgraceful people then ask you "Do they represent their country's image?". Because that's is a kind of embarrassment and may reslut in unpleasant sentiments from you, I give up the attempts to disapprove your this point. But you should know I don't agree with it. No matter in which forum (RSS) , I can met people like Joe, Paterson, When conflicts exist , I will argue not only on his points but also on himself(for example fidelity,inconsistancy,or other personality). Paterson, Joe enjoy call my posts "Bullsh't","nonesense" directly . I like describe their points as "nonesense" ,but avoid using those derogative phrases directly. That's my style in arguement. Gosh! I had no such burden ("smear my own country's image") in my countries forum. I petition you and other people don't link me with my country please. it's untrue , unfair.

Zyme on :

"I had no such burden ("smear my own country's image") in my countries forum. I petition you and other people don't link me with my country please. it's untrue , unfair." Linking you with your country is far from being unfair. It is intended to encourage a responsible way of discussion. It also reflects a very human reaction - think about it: Most of us don´t know many Chinese. Is it surprising that we are tempted to think "Probably most of the Chinese behave that way" ? That is why you are an ambassador of your country. One of the most vital aspects of a fruitful communication that are surely also included in China is mutual respect. When people want you to use a single name so that they can have a productive discussion, you should respect this will. And if they don´t like to be distracted by different colours but want to read insightful comments instead, it is again a matter of respect to not use these colours.

John in Michigan, USA on :

Joerg - Thank you for stepping in. Long overdue.

To_Michigan_JOIN(many thanks) on :

You finally pop up . welcome your particiaption . I guess you had done many thing behind the curtain. Your reply ,as long as it concerns me , no matter overdue or timely , I am eager to know about it. I make pledges to Mr. Joerg do not use those politicians or journalists (or whatelse) 's name any more. Thanks for your supervision against me. I guess You must have some precious opinions on this thread. Don't hesitate! let us share with you.

Pat Patterson on :

Joerg also asked that one name be used rather than thousands.

reply_MR_Paterson on :

I respect Joerg requests. I gave up my original name "Merkel" because it is same to some celebrity's name. I gave up my preference of using color to make my posts better presented. I do not randomly use some journalists' name anymore. Joerg must sense my respect somewhere. I got problem with the one-sided western media not Joerg. I don't mean to challenge his authority. Paterson, It is no use backbiting me .It disturbs Mr. Joerg. A Webmaster has many important thing to do. He provide so many useful information for us all and enlighten us for a meaningful and in-depth debates. I appreciate his efforts and hope you can focus on something more important ,more meaningful thing. Joerg never told me such things thousands. If you perplexed by such trivial things all along, maybe you can narrate this thing for thousand time.

quo vadis on :

Joerg, I think your interpretation of the protesters sign says more about you than the protester. I read it as a rather clever ironic joke. I have heard that ironic humor is kind of an American thing, so perhaps your take on it is understandable. Secondly nowhere did the poster mention the US government. 'We' does not imply the US government or specifically the American people, even when stated by an American. Why did you assume that it did?

Zyme on :

I would have considered it to be a joke as well. Nonetheless you have to admit that it is tasteless and lacks the most basic amount of international respect.

franchie on :

I didn't read that the american conservatives found the slogan to be a joke, but rather stupid ______________________________________ "Salute to Henry Kinsinger Salute to Zbigniew Brzezinski Thumb to Nicolas Sakozy (down-side thump)" henri Kinsinger acknoledge China under Nixon presidency, though De Gaulle was the first to akcnoledge China Zbigniew Brzezinski, the responsible of ME mess ??? Sarkozy ? whay's wrong with him ? Delanoe made Dalai Lama honor Citizen of Paris, not Sarkozy who has more the position of Bush in this affair BTW the richer chinese citizens still come and invade the luxury stores in Paris, one bought Carla Saekozy's pic for 91000 $, they also buy the wine properties in Bordeaux, copy our castels in China... so who's is being fooled there ? the poor plebe that don't know that they are manipulated

Fuchur on :

[i]I have heard that ironic humor is kind of an American thing[/i] That would explain a lot... (insert random Bush joke) But I agree with you: I also think that "we" on the sign did not mean "the US", but more something like "the free world" or "the ICC". Obviously, China is not in a league with Nazi Germany. However, China's human rights violations and restraints on free speech are well documented. The question is: Can we assume that something like the Olympic Games can have a positive impact on a dictatorial regime? Bearing in mind the example of Nazi Germany, the answer would be: No.

Don S on :

""Would we have allowed Nazi Germany to host the Olympics?"" "Not just because the author has not heard about the 1936 Olympics in Berlin. And not just because of his/her comparison between Nazi Germany and China. I find the statement revealing because the author apparently thinks that it is the United States as Master of the Universe that gets to decide who is allowed to host the Olympics. " I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation here. The meaning may have been 'would we allow Nazi Germany to host the Olympics - again?'. Although it's perfectly possible he/she/it doesn't know that; historical ignorance is often a hallmark of the activist. In this case 'we' may well mean 'the world', or 'enlightened global opinion' or some such. I don't see a exression of nationalism here. As you saw on German Joys I've been arguing rather strenuously against drawing parallels between the PRC and the Third Reich and tryinmg to get people to realize that in 1936 the vast majority of the crimes had not yet been committed. The people who 'allowed' Nazi Germany to host the Games lacked a time machine and could not see the coming horrors - can we blame them much? In earlier days soem pretty messy countries hosted the Olympics, with the poster child being Belgium, which hosted the 1920 Games while running a repressive and murderous colonial regime in the Congo. France (1900) US (1904), UK (1908) also would not be confused with angels at the time. China is a corrupt oligarchy and does it's share of evil, but I don't see it as fundamentally evil. It's certainly not the Third Reich and may compare favorably with the hosts I listed above. I think it was a mistake to gie the Olympics to China, but there is not nearly good enough reason to withdraw or boycott the games.

Pat Patterson on :

In 1936 many Americans were well aware of the situation in Germany and there was much talk of a boycott. Germany had already passed dozens of laws that made their intent towards Jews very clear. The infamous Nuremburg Laws were passed in 1935 so there was no excuse to claim that the other nations of the IOC didn't know. And the Olympic charter expressly gives the power to the IOC to move the games if the host is deemed to be in violation of the charter. But the leader of the USOC and the IOC, Avery Brundage, at that time was known to have not just German sympathies but was acknowledged to be a Nazi sympathiser as well. Brundage's construction company had already received several contracts for buildings for either the German government or some of the international corporations, ie., Bayer and Mercedes (Surprise, Mercedes built a small number of cars in NY before the war). And later built the German Embassy in Washington. Brundage was able to parlay his political sympathies into financial rewards while at the same time not allowing even the slightest sympathy for a boycott or for the Jews. The hierarchy of the Olympic movement has always been more comfortable dealing with dictatorships than messy democracies. The last time a city got what it wanted and was profitable was Los Angeles and the chance that will happen again is virtually nil. The IOC and the national Olympic bodies know perfectly well what kind of human rights records the Chinese had but voted for them because of a combination of lots of liquor, greed and not having to listen to the citizenry whine about the costs. Oh, and the TV rights in the US had something to do with the contract as well. Anybody that was in favor of the boycott found themselves excluded from the team or removed from the IOC or UOC post. One of my graduate school teachers had been a modern pentathlete and was working for the USOC while still in the Army during the 30's and was subsequently banned from the Olympic movement for endorsing the boycott movement. He wasn't rehabilitated and allowed to rejoin the USOC until after Brundage died in 1975. The current leadership of the USOC were mainly anti-boycott in 1984, many getting their leg up in the movement because the spoke against the boycott, and are unlikely to have much sympathy for such calls.

Don S on :

Hmmm. Not completely dissimular to the current situation after all. That Brundage was a real piece of work, wasn't he? But it's also not completely similar. I'd argue that the most-similar previous Olympics was Moscow 1980. If Moscow hadn't invaded Afghanistan the world would have come and there would have been no boycott. Hypocritically, yes. Whom has China invaded recently? Is the Olympics to be limited to 'virtuous' democracies? Didn't start that way. Greece was a monarchy as were the UK and Belgium. The 1916 Olympics would have been hosted by the Kaiser had WWI not intervened, and the 1940 Olympice would have been hosted by the Divine Emperor of honorable Japan.

Pat Patterson on :

I agree as the suddeness of the current events has brought up the original issue of what standards are used to select a host city. They are indeed available of the IOC website, but you have to dig and the actual contract is unavailable. But the invasion of Afghanistan occurred almost 6 months prior to the Games and allowed a boycott movement ample time to organize itself. However in the current case unless China does something even more outrageous the current Games will go on as planned. I guess if only a couple of hundred are killed no problem but when or if it reaches into the thousands then the public handwringing will really begin. But if I see one more profile of some athlete who works with blind children or cares for his mother who has elephantitis then I probably will use several batteries in the remote fast forwarding. Avery Brundage, as you point out, was a piece of work, I met him on one occassion and heard him speak at the USOC annual convention a few times. I probably still hold some personal animus towards him as I was banned from AAU and USOC events in the late 60's and early 70's because I was a paid college coach and still competing. But he never budged on the decision to allow Berlin to host the games even when confronted by Elie Wiesel and Marty Glickman.

Reid of America on :

I know it sounds selfish but I want to see the Olympics be a big success and the boycotts to fizzle. My constituency is far bigger than any other on the planet. It is the 6+ billion fans of Olympic sport. I want to see the worlds best athletes compete. I for one will take a break from politics and view dimly anyone who tries to rob the 6+ billion sports fans of their quadrennial high holy days.

franchie on :

got some tasty news about Menard, the pseudo "reporter without borders" : "As if that were not enough, the USAID has also received grants from National Endowment for Democracy (IRI) and the International Republican Institute (IRI), two other providers of RSF. It is not only for pleasure that Robert Menard maintains an office in New York, and has a signature accountant in Virginia, just a few minutes from Bunker of the CIA, in addition to a bank account to which North American he alone has access." http://www.mondialisation.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8703 funny, Taiwan gave a medal to Menard : "Taiwan has built up over the years into a real nest of anti-communism created and protected by the USA. For the expert, "corruption is not only a practical foreign policy of this regime, but a legacy of China's Chiang Kai-shek that efforts be made to preserve". Visibly pleased to confront as generous admirers, Menard praised the regime of Taiwan which he described as "best example of democracy in Asia", reported Taiwan News, an official website of the Ministry 's Information on the island." http://www.mondialisation.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8702

Joe Noory on :

Haven't you ever asked yourself what made the "unbiased" reporters who take sides and the like somewhat suspicious? Just [url=http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2007/11/reporters-without-scruples.html]follow the money[/url], dude. Is there some notion that NED, established under Clinton is some sort of evil tool of.... (heaven forbid!) the advancement of DEMOCRACY?!? How AWFUL. People VOTING!?! People free to practice their ideas and feelings in a civil society! What an EVIL thing to promote! How DARE they! We foolish Americans have SO MUCH to learn from [url=http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2006/10/no-niggers-in-espirat.html]wise[/url] continental [url=http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2008/04/implausible-arrogance-of-european-mind.html]lesson givers[/url]!

franchie on :

I bet your links are biased, dude

Kevin Sampson on :

ROFLMAO And yours aren't?

Pat Patterson on :

Joe-The NED was established much earlier that the Clinton Administration, in 1983, but he wisely continued its funding. The group originally was out of a cooperative group, both left and right, of both political parties, the US Chamber of Commerce and most importantly the AFL-CIO under Lane Kirkland who was instrumental in supplying advice, training and smuggled mimeograph machines to Solidarity in Poland. Sometimes you send F16s, sometimes you send proxies and as much as possible send copiers and how-to-canvass pamphlets. It's not the NED that is the problem but rather the touching faith some have in the honesty and accuracy of websites. In this case Global Research which is rapidly devolving into hosting various cranks of the left and 9/11 Truthers. Slightly O/T but I suspect that franchie has been borrowed by one of our disinterested patriots from the PRC.

franchie on :

Pat, actually, one of our senators, that has the same feelings as me on the Dalai affair, gave the guess that Mesnard had obscure subventions, funny, we see that man everywhere where there is a big mess, followed with his tibetan professional rioters ; that's not his association that can afford such an organisation. I took the chance to search about him... yeah, the good compassionate fellows have some funny aspects, that the news have no time to digg and, no, Merkel didn't hire me, I was already on the subject before she appeared

Pat Patterson on :

All you had to do was go to the NED site and the Reporters Without Borders site and simply look for their funding sources. They are required by law to post them all on their site. So the implication that these connections are hidden is not really valid. But I am a little confused about your claim he appears "...with his tibetan professional rioters:" considering he was not in San Francisco nor to the best of my knowledge in Paris when the worst of the demos occurred. Plus according to Salim Lanhari at Global Research Menard is owned and paid for by the Cuban exile community. I would argue that is unlikely in the extreme to be capable of both.

franchie on :

he, then you don't look at the same news... I am surprised that you take this "frenchman" in such value Mr Menard was a "trotkyste" in his youth (like many 1968 pseudo- intellocrates) "Ce sont ses liens avec les milieux néo-conservateurs américains que je mets en cause. Ce n'est pas le petit Tintin isolé" : invité d'Europe 1 mercredi matin, Jean-Luc Mélenchon s'est montré très critique vis-à-vis de la mobilisation des militants pro-tibétains lundi à l'occasion de la flamme olympique à Paris. Sa principale cible : Robert Ménard, accusé d'avoir utilisé la cause tibétaine pour faire un coup politique" "Nous continuerons à faire des actions comme ça jusqu'au 8 août", a déclaré Robert Ménard par téléphone depuis les locaux de police de Pyrgos, à 80 km d'Olympie, où il est interrogé par la police grecque"... "Ce que l'on veut c'est que les chefs d'Etats étrangers boycottent la cérémonie d'ouverture des jeux. Nous n'avons rien contre les JO, rien contre les athlètes. Nous alertons les Etats sur le fait que la Chine est la plus grande prison du monde", a poursuivi Robert Ménard, dirigeant de l'ONG française"... Menard Le secrétaire général de Reporters sans Frontières (RSF), Robert Ménard, s'est félicité vendredi de l'offre de dialogue de Pékin avec le dalaï lama, mais compte toutefois manifester samedi à Nagano (centre) sur le parcours de la flamme olympique... about the fonds : "D'où vient l'argent? Le Parisien 13 avril 2008, p. 8, Rosalie Lucas MAIS qui finance Reporters sans frontières? L'organisation fondée en 1985 dispose d'un budget de près de quatre millions d'euros, et c'est sur la question de ses fonds que les détracteurs de Robert Ménard attaquent La moitié du financement de RSF (58 %) provient de ses ressources propres. Neuf pour cent viennent des cotisations et dons, et la même proportion de financement public. Le mécénat compte pour 24 %. Le grand groupe pharmaceutique Sanofi Aventis soutient l'organisation depuis sa création en 1985. Mais l'ONG, comme on peut le lire sur son site, reçoit aussi des fonds du National Endowment for Democracy (NED, fondation nationale pour la démocratie et du Center for a Free Cuba" "L'organisation, aujourd'hui présente à travers ses bureaux et des sections nationales sur les cinq continents, est financée grâce à la vente de calendriers, de photos, des subventions et des dons. Comme ceux, controversés, de fonds gouvernementaux américains via la fondation National Endowment for Democracy (NED) qui ne lui posaient "aucun problème". NED Officiellement créé le 6 novembre 1982, la Fondation nationale pour la démocratie (National Endowment for Democracy - NED) dispose du statut juridique d’association à but non-lucratif. Mais son financement est voté par le Congrès et figure dans le chapitre du budget du département d’État consacré à l’Agence pour le développement international (US Agency for International Development - USAID). Pour maintenir l’illusion d’une organisation privée, la NED reçoit en outre des dons de trois associations, elles mêmes indirectement financées par contrats fédéraux : la Smith Richardson Foundation, la John M. Olin Foundation et la Lynde and Harry Bradley Foundation La plupart des figures historiques des actions clandestines de la CIA ont siégé un jour ou l’autre au Conseil d’administration ou à la direction de la NED, dont Otto Reich, John Negroponte, Henry Cisneros ou Elliot Abrams. Elle est aujourd’hui présidée par Vin Weber, ancien représentant républicain du Minnesota, fondateur de l’association ultra-conservatrice Empower America et collecteur de fonds pour la campagne de George W. Bush en 2000. Son directeur exécutif est Carl Geshman, un ex-trotskiste, devenu responsable du Parti socialiste des États-Unis (Social Democrats, USA), et membre du courant néo-conservateur. "Si on en parle pas, ça n'existe pas" est un leitmotiv de RSF, qui publie chaque année un rapport annuel et plus de mille communiqués pour dénoncer les atteintes à la liberté de la presse et aux droits de l'Homme en général." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endowment_for_Democracy well, I could find some more ex.

Joe Noory on :

Don't be surprised that reds are fixated on a hatred of democracy. In the DDR they advertised treatise after treatise to try to keep people convinced of the very same, and the western leftist academics parroted it faithfully and bitterly, often rationalizing in their passion about "the people" the fact that they didn't trust them, looked own on them, and though them too stupid to go without the guidance of benevolent tyrants. Trotskyites were different. They didn't believe the benevolence part, and advocated a never ending state of violence and revolution which wouldn't just concentrate power further outside the influence of "the people", but THIN THE HERD too.

to_Mr_JOE on :

[i] Interesting that you still think I'm a palestinian when I'm not, and that as an American and an Arab, that I should no nothing of either, [/i] Sorry, I misunderstood you here . I thought you had connection with your homeland 'Palestine' in some way ,at least in sentiments. I told you Arabian ministers and powerful Arabian media staffs meet in Beijing, They told total different storys comparing to your allegations. You had to admit that you can only represent yourself. You know little about either Arab or USA. So please don't use that blatant tone ,attitudes to make conclusions here or there. [i] Does that great, trustworthy being of your nature really need to change its' name in a blog every 10 minutes? [/i] Do i mentioned "great" "greatness" in my self-evaluation? never. But I think i am trustworthy compared to someone in this forum. I am honest to what I did in this forum all the time. I criticize someone's points and never disguise my discontent to him(or her). Never trapped others in such trivial things to escape his own responsiblity for proving. [i] In spite of some anger you have for me, for the life of me, I can't understand a word you're saying because it's so incredibly unclear. If you found an old piece on NPR about Qadaffi, what in heavens' name do you want me to do about it? What on earth is that dramatic discovery of yours' mean? That I'm personally responsible for the action of that man? Grow up. [/i] You make a allegation that I talk nonesense all the time and ask me for proofs. I provided. then you ask me why provide an old piece of information? many more such things concerning African ,Iraq, IRan, Cuba..., are available there. You should not be responsible for those disinformation capaign. YOu should be responsible for your own remarks after all. You once boast you are seasoned guy with many experiences. It is no need to ask you "grow up". because age and experience is not the only way to get sagacious, some people get more bigoted when they got older. SO joe don't be too old to accept anything new. 'Grow up in wisdom not in age'. Age is not the mere reason for respect.

reply_to_Joe on :

[i] If you hate what's going on in the world, directing your anger at me won't change it. As to your point about the American population, I wonder how you can make such a foolish assumtion if you don't live here. [/i] I never criticize US people, I criticize US government, US congressman ,pentagon officials and republican conservatives. That's all. You happened to stand up on the opposite side, I had to diapprove your points to support my point-of-view. Your opinion is typical in western world. So my arguements against you is only a step to achieve my goal. You are virtualized in my mind to represent something I total disagree with, so there is no personal attack on you at all. on the other hand , I need to make a real traget for my angers-venting. That make my posts meaningful and specific to someone or something. Don't take it personally. IF you insist , Then take it personally. As to the point " if you don't live here,then you can not make foolish assumtion ",that is not ture . You can ask Paterson stop commenting on Europe, Franchie stop make judgement on USA..., I guess they can tell you something. I personally that propsition refect your anger inside and make no any sense here. [i] I'm not going to address anything you say any more. It's a waste of time to take the time to convince an adolescent bigot who throws out opinions as facts and get's angry when he discovers that there may be people who don't agree with him. The very idea that you think all 300 million of us are identical and have opinions that permit your ego to believe that you're presenting some kind of great wisdom is laughable. [/i] I know most westerners will not buy my story. I never expect applause from them. You picture me as "an adolescent bigot who throws out opinions as facts and get's angry when he discovers that there may be people who don't agree with him. " ,It doesn't fit for my case. Maybe you can defile me as "hostile to all western people". you can prove neither of the two cases. But that will helpful to relieve your fire towards me. Your allegation of the so-called 'you think all 300 million of us are identical and have opinions that permit your ego to believe that you're presenting some kind of great wisdom ' is anyhing but a illusion from you. You wanna tell me what leave you such impression here ? The politic game I told here is common-sense in everywhere, espcially in western world, You angry ,just beacuse you can not accpet the truth that western media, western politicians negatively applied the same tricks as those communist dittators.

Pat Patterson on :

OK, then simple question name one public media outlet in the US tht is controlled by the US government, either by law, oversight or ownership? And then tell me how independent Xinhua or the China News Service are?

thanks_Reply_Paterson on :

Dear Mr.Paterson: Name a US media outlet that is not affected by US government. I see so many US media got involved in Iraq disinformation campaign, So many US media use disgraceful tricks to disguise the truth of Tibet riots in March 14. only quite a few leftest US media told us the truth of US government manipulating Tibet riots. If you want to name those republican conservative mouthpiece(s) , You can stop now. If you want to enumerate those media who objectively made reports on Lhasa riots. I am very glad. Please enumerate at lest three. I neet to express my gratitudes to them. As to Xinhua or other China News Service ,I think their reports on Lhasa riots is objective and reliable. So if you proclaim that Xinhua's coverages is more convincing than western world on everything. I will disapprove you with many proofs. Every news media has its shortcoming ,Xinhua news media is not an exception. I would like you to criticize it. I know many blunders it did. Paterson, please work harder to disclose. If you can not bash on you opponent (Xinhua news agency) as harshly as i can do , you will be a total loser. FYI: simply call it a state-owned media make no use. Best regards

Pat Patterson on :

That's not the question and substituting affected by the government is a silly way to avoid the issue. There were dozens if not hundreds of article and editorials rejecting the reasoning behind America's decision to go into Iraq. Lack of knowledge about these arguments does not mean that the media in the US was in lockstep with the governemt. And losing an argument does not mean that the public was lied to rather that the opposite argument was unconvincing. So I take it that you cannot answer the question? There is no government office that checks all of the news reports unlike the Central Committe in the PRC. Newspapers and broadcast media do indeed put out the press releases that the various government agencies issue including official statements from the PRC but are not required and just as often do not issue these releases. Plus in reference to Xinhua or the Chinese News Service being reliable simply begs the question, compared to what? I think also that part of the misunderstand the Chinese have of the US media is that they are only exposed to very limited parts of it and assume that, like media in China, these sources are all censored and controlled by he government. One can't claim its media is free simply because there are no other sources to compare them too. And an over reliance on opinion web sites of the left or right is simply dangerous and indicates a rather touching faith in the accuracy of any scribbling on the wall that indicates calling for a good time.

again to_Dear_Paterson on :

I admit there exists censorship in China. And China should lift up such management so that Chinese citizens can well-informed and using media to supervise the authority. Your question is whether China news service is censored or not. The anser is yes. If you use this as a proof to prove me that China media's coverages is biased or one-sided. You are totally wrong. US government and US media manipulate its people in a more sophisticated way. So every time , You face something questionable. Seek truth from facts. if you label one side as a liar, then you can not make objective judegement most of time. Anti-cnn.com records so many ludicrous snapshots from western media. You can not convince me that their Lhasa reports is reliable. As to US government and its media's role in Iraq war , your points is not convincing. your position swayed by your cultrue,your education, your experience.I don't think it is objective. It's 6:43 PM in Beijing Time. I got my own things to do. I waste almost all day in this forum. I am a instrumentation and automation engineer, if no big quarrel exists, I'll take a rest for a while or just foucs on my own business. Maybe i'll leave for good. Gentleman ! Joe and Paterson, please don't dish out dirty thing on my country. thanks a lot.

Joe Noory on :

But your "facts" are just plain siily. Allegation: America is engineering an empire Your proof: Arab press people hold a conference in Beijing Allegation: The US government tired to topple Qadaffi with press stories Your proof: none. An old item from NPR that mantions Col. Qaddafi The press don't CAUSE events in the way you think they do, and to be frank with you, it isn't that hard to tell who you are even if you change your nickname dozens of times. It's quite simple, really: look for the incredibly hostile character who throws out some theory that's supported by nothing and gets angry to discover that people don't agree with him on it. I know most westerners will not buy my story. I never expect applause from them. You picture me as "an adolescent bigot who throws out opinions as facts and get's angry when he discovers that there may be people who don't agree with him. " ,It doesn't fit for my case. Maybe you can defile me as "hostile to all western people". you can prove neither of the two cases. But that will helpful to relieve your fire towards me. Your allegation of the so-called 'you think all 300 million of us are identical and have opinions that permit your ego to believe that you're presenting some kind of great wisdom ' is anyhing but a illusion from you. You wanna tell me what leave you such impression here ? The politic game I told here is common-sense in everywhere, espcially in western world, You angry ,just beacuse you can not accpet the truth that western media, western politicians negatively applied the same tricks as those communist dittators. You make allegations about all of America that don't make any sense and would be impossible for "all of America" to carry out anyway. The western media is not a branch of the governments of their place of origin. You say that you don't accuse Americans, just the government, the media, and Republicans. - You have never mentioned the word "Republican" "U.S. Governement", or anything else. You're just spraying your anger. You suggest that the Tibet protests are the fault of Eisenhower, CNN, and the US government, while the US government is not taking the theatrical approach that the Europeans are, and the only people you seem to think have nothing to do with the issue are the Tibetan Nationalists and the central government of the PRC. Do you see a patttern? The cause you establish of any event is never the parties involved in it. The press, somehow, in this fnatasy of yours' causes events, and by disconnected relationships somehow 'proves' things that they aren't even addressing. How, for example, does a handful of Arab journos meeting in Beijing prove that America is the evil entity that you want to imagine it is? How? Tell me, because I can't wait to hear this one. I'm genuinely tired of people who throw out accusations without any sort of reasonable connection with applicable events, and then get offended when people don't agree with everything they say. What is doing that supposed to do? Inform events? You say that you're on a sort of campaign against the foreign press, in an effort to convince people that it shouldn't be taken for fact. Guess what - if you actually looked at the sort of things most people outside your little bubble were saying, you'd realize that they don't take press reports as fact. That, in fact is what you fear because it's something you probably learned to believe yourself in the past: a accept that what you see in the press is always fact. You are suffering from the consequence of having lived in a society where information was and in large part remains controlled. The consequences are a sort of simplistic underdevelopment of the connection between events, reports, facts, and opinions. It's also expressed in a hostility for anything that disturbs your developed view, and a lack of repect for the notion of supported facts. You are really quite tedious, and have yet to learn a simple, simple thing: words. have. meaning. They aren't to be thrown around without thought or care because you think it will advance some cause you feel strong about.

Álvaro Degives-Más on :

Jörg, that's a great observation you make on such risible and flatliner arrogance - including the appropriate clarification you added later, at the footer. Absolutely on the nose. I can't stand phony "progressives", I really can't.

to_Alvaro_and_joerg on :

I agree with you. He provide som many valuable background information and valuable analysis for our in-depth discussion. Well done! Joerg P.S @Franchie Salute to Henry Kinsinger Salute to Zbigniew Brzezinski Because these two man are great strategists, Henry Kinsinger is republican guy, Brzezinski is a Democratic guy. They are all hardliner to safeguard US interests. They are all realistic politician , understand when to compromise and when to show its toughness. In my mind these two men is more powerful than Clinton and Bush in history. I enumerate them is to express my little discontent against Nicolas Sakozy. He make tough remarks on China for his election benefits. Franchie , I don't like Paris mayor's remarks either. Their is no need to includes everyone i disagree with. Some violent protesters i even don'y know their name. So your comments concerning my ignorance on Paris mayor's 'play' stands no reason there. I can know the most updating information on European reaction to China. Reuter's outlet alertnet.org is my source recently, It make so many lies about China, I don't trust it. But i read it then make confirmation seperately. Believe me ,Franchie ,I know every detail of Paris mayor's anti-china words and actions. (FYI: Even France ruling party spokesman ascribe his performance as a strive for his party's leader)

Pat Patterson on :

Reuter's has nothing to do with AlterNet which is a stand alone non-profit group founded by Independent Media Services. It is wholeheartedly of the left and once in a while publishes some interesting opinion pieces. Anytime one relies on these type of sites, left or right, then the consequences can be extremely embarassing as their motivation for publishing may have nothing to do with the truth but rather propaganda. Were you also aware that the Mayor of Paris is a Socialist and thus criticism by the UMP can hardly be taken seriously? However since 1971 only two other people have been named Honorary Citizens of Paris, Pablo Picasso and Mumia Abu Jamal. This seems to be a honor that has more to do with upsetting some other country rather than any real recognition of the validity of that person's life. But since all three are either Communists or closet socialists then the honor does seem to indicate a certain political point of view. And again, so what? If China and its citizens want to be considered players in the world then their tendency to cover their ears and yell "...neener, neener" might not be the wisest course to pursue. Counter the misrepresentations, if they are, with verifiable facts not opinion.

franchie on :

as far as you quoting of Sarkozy's comments on China, it might be on the projected protections rules for EU against the "agressivity" of China marckets, and I suppose that the boycott of french goods that was allowed by Chinese government through the net, was also to make pressure on him as he is going to be the next president of EU for the next semester (he, Americans complained about it either); other than that, I didn't hear him saying things against chinese people apart what his government nice looking ladies said about human rights, (are they wrong ?); there are there for amusing the lefty gallery in our medias.

bubbalovesyou2much on :

Wait a minute, any white American or European protesting against Chinese treatment of Tibetans or any other groups of people for that matter are nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. These are people (white Americans) who are living in a nation that does not belong to them. Most of them are descendents of slave owners, so who are they to criticize and protest the Chinese when the Chinese probably learned this kind of actions from them? Apartheid, holocausts during WWII, colonization, slavery, etc, were all started by whites. But now here they are attacking the Chinese! How ironic! They just fear the quick rise and power that China is experiencing, and since it’s a non-white nation, every white person in the world is buckling at the knees. How about Free Iraq! If China bombarded Iraq, all these whites would be protesting and screaming. The biggest hypocrites in the world are whites!

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