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Top Obama Aide: No Free Ride for EuropePosted by Joerg Wolf in German Politics, Transatlantic Relations on Saturday, July 19. 2008 The Daily Telegraph interviewed Former Assistant Secretary of State Susan Rice ahead of Obama's world tour:
Many German pundits have said the same many times before, but the wider public is still in love with Obama. So many people over here are thrilled that Obama is coming to Berlin. Many of my friends tell me that they will try to attend his speech at the Siegessäule (Victory Column), where the Techno "Love Parade" used to culminate. It is quite close to the Brandenburg Gate. I am pretty sure that Europe's current love for Obama will be over within half a year of his presidency, should he be elected. More realism will prevail. And that is okay. Welcome! You are reading the ATLANTIC REVIEW -- a Press Digest on Transatlantic Relations combined with commentary and analysis by three young professionals from Germany, the Netherlands and the United States. More about us. The horizontal menu bar at the top helps to navigate this site. Subscribe to one of our RSS-Feeds or to our newsletter, which is emailed twice per month.Trackbacks
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Joe Noory
- #1 - 2008-07-19 15:06 -
These people get to chide each other over various serious-seeming business, some kind of show of statecraft by and for the interest of an inexperienced candidate... how cute. Comments (8)
Don S
- #2 - 2008-07-19 15:47 -
Much is made of the new '*style*. It's not quite 'old wine, new bottles'. But it's close. Europe used the 2000's to teach us Yanks that they would not follow the US lead in the Atlantic Alliance - I suspect it's going to be the US' turn in the 2010's. Europe is going to have to work out SOME kind of positive agenda which they can do to preserve the alliance. If they stiff McCain/Obama I don't think anything too apoplyptic will occur in the short term. Comments (2)
SC
- #2.1 - 2008-07-19 18:17 -
Don: Clinton redux with respect to foreign policy in an Obama administration? With respect to Europe, probably; Asia, not so sure, but possibly too since it would not be unreasonable to find his administration stocked with old Clinton hands or those trained by them. Comments (4)
Don S
- #2.1.1 - 2008-07-21 19:23 -
SC, there is going to be a LOT of Clintonism in Obama's European FP. Lot's of smiling, photo ops, etc. I agree with you about Asia & Africa - not as much Clintonism there. Comments (2)
franchie
- #3 - 2008-07-19 15:59 -
what I wrote on the same subject elsewhere : Comments (2)
David
- #4 - 2008-07-19 16:31 -
Iraqi Prime Minister al-Maliki just told Der Spiegel that he supports Barack Obama's plan for withdrawing US troops from his country. Apparently John McSame's 100-year occupation plan doesn't sit too well with our friends in Baghdad... Comments (2)
Joe Noory
- #4.1 - 2008-07-19 23:19 -
If the only driving feature of you posts and comments are about domestic politics, why post them here? Comments (8)
David
- #4.1.1 - 2008-07-20 01:36 -
Because it's a huge story in the US that broke through the German media. Major scoop for Der Spiegel. It will be on the front page of every newspaper in Europe and the US tomorrow. Comments (2)
Pat Patterson
- #4.1.1.1 - 2008-07-20 07:26 -
It is indeed a major scoop in that it turns out PM Maliki didn't say what Der Spiegel claimed he said. In fact they were very misleading in implying that they used the audio of his comments when the actual scoop is based on a written translation released by Maliki's office. Which included the word withdrawal when the reference was towards the status and number of troops and where they will be stationed. He was referring to the difficulties of negotiating the Status of Forces Agreement in the midst of upcoming parliamentary elections in Iraq and presidential and congressional elections in the US. In other words just another tease that leaves Sen. Obama's supporters in a state of unfulfillment. Comments (5)
Joe Noory
- #4.1.1.2 - 2008-07-20 14:36 -
David - Comments (8)
John in Michigan, USA
- #4.2 - 2008-07-20 03:54 -
All this is happening because McCain ruthlessly hounded Obama to visit Iraq. Remember, before now, Obama considered Iraq a "distraction". If Obama is finally getting serious and engaging on Iraq, it is about time. Comments (7)
SC
- #4.2.1 - 2008-07-20 04:25 -
John: Here is an interesting take back on July 9 posted by Mohammed at Iraq the Model when all this first became public - well before Spiegel's story. Comments (4)
John in Michigan, USA
- #4.2.1.1 - 2008-07-20 08:05 -
Excellent, excellent link! Here it is in clickable form. Comments (7)
Pat Patterson
- #4.2.1.1.1 - 2008-07-20 12:42 -
John-How did you do that without ending up in Comment Purgatory? Comments (5)
John in Michigan, USA
- #4.2.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-20 13:42 -
You have to limit the number of links in the post. I don't know what the magic number of links is, but I have never had a problem with 1 to 3 links per post. Comments (7)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #4.2.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-20 14:17 -
I wish I knew the magic number of links for this. Comments (5)
Pat Patterson
- #4.2.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-21 03:48 -
Lately quite a few of my comments have been "embraced" a little too long even though I have not provided a link but merely typed in the URL. I'll try the BBCode but I will not hold my breath. Still even then the wait is worth it as I generally find the posts and the comments stimulating and based on some knowledge of the issues discussed even if I find myself unpersuaded. It's a compliment Joerg! Comments (5)
SC
- #4.2.1.1.2 - 2008-07-21 04:25 -
John: Oops! Comments (4)
Fuchur
- #5 - 2008-07-19 19:04 -
I'm not so sure that European love for Obama would fade so quickly. After all, these things aren't about realism. Europeans don't care enough about American politics to judge an American president by his record. It's much more about symbols or feelings. Obama would be the perceived first and foremost as the first black American president. That's a powerful symbol, and unless he screws up as badly as Bush did, I think that this will overshadow pretty much everything he does. At least, I'm certain that something like asking for more troops for Afghanistan won't harm his reputation at all. Comments (3)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #5.1 - 2008-07-20 11:39 -
I am not saying that Obama will be unpopular, but I do believe that the current love will fade quickly. Comments (5)
John in Michigan, USA
- #5.1.1 - 2008-07-20 22:16 -
"Obama's current popularity in Europe is not based on his skin color or family history. Rather it is that vision thing. And his charisma." Comments (7)
Fuchur
- #5.1.1.1 - 2008-07-21 13:56 -
I think there's no doubt that Obama's ideas are well within Democrat mainstream. There's no point in renaming the Democrats "Socialists". This would water down the word "socialist" to the point where it becomes meaningless. But I guess I can't come up with a "better" label for Obama... Solidarity?! I don't know... Comments (3)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #5.2 - 2008-07-20 11:50 -
Anybody around here to remember Bill Clinton's first two years in office? Comments (5)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #5.3 - 2008-07-20 11:53 -
@ Fuchur Comments (5)
Fuchur
- #5.3.1 - 2008-07-20 15:47 -
Rather it is that vision thing. And his charisma. Comments (3)
John in Michigan, USA
- #5.3.1.1 - 2008-07-20 23:29 -
I wrote this also in response to your comment re the vision thing. Comments (7)
Joe Noory
- #5.4 - 2008-07-20 20:00 -
Our politics will remain little more than a spectacle to them - this may dawn on a few of them taking a train to the rally when they get off at S-Bahnhof Zoo to attend it. Comments (8)
influx
- #5.4.1 - 2008-07-21 00:38 -
What would dawn on Europeans at Bahnhof Zoo? That they should have gotten off another station to get to the Victory Column? Comments (4)
Joe Noory
- #5.4.1.1 - 2008-07-21 13:38 -
Disinterested participation in a spectacle of (in this case) other people's political lives. As Zyme note, things like an incredibly ridiculous and simplitic expectation that he's a European in his mind - a kind of Manchurian candidate there to serve their needs and give Europe something else that would come at no cost to them. Comments (8)
influx
- #5.4.1.1.1 - 2008-07-21 14:37 -
"Disinterested"? How do you know? You make these sweeping generalizations about people without providing the slightest bit of evidence. Just to remind you: the speech hasn't even happened yet, so I would be a bit more hesitant about already judging people's motivations for attending it. What makes you think that "Zyme's" opinion is representative of Europeans in general? Just asking. Comments (4)
Joe Noory
- #5.4.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-21 18:54 -
We've read in these very pages, in other blogs, and in the media just what it is that non-electors who would not be governed under the US presidential elections think they want out of it, and it displays a lack of seriousness (what do they care anyway,) a lack of familiarity, and betrays the fact that they don't care about what the candidate's positions really are - they just want to see a sort of dramatic-statement action in November that will satisfy their emotions for one day. Comments (8)
influx
- #5.4.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-21 19:09 -
You could have saved those two last paragraphs for someone else. I didn't suggest anything like that anywhere, and I don't quite see how what I wrote relates at all to your diatribe. Comments (4)
Joe Noory
- #5.4.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-21 22:11 -
Anyone can speak their mind - including you and me, and eaach of us can embarass ourselves all we like. The last two paragraphs are the motive behind my position on this. Comments (8)
influx
- #5.4.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2008-07-21 22:22 -
Fair enough. Even though I think it's natural and obvious that people care more about US elections than, I don't know, domestic Italian or Belgian or German affairs. The US has slightly more influence on international politics than any European country, wouldn't you say? I also fail to see a lack of worrying over domestic politics in European countries. Comments (4)
John in Michigan, USA
- #6 - 2008-07-20 02:15 -
"I am pretty sure that Europe's current love for Obama will be over within half a year of his presidency, should he be elected. More realism will prevail." Comments (7)
Pat Patterson
- #7 - 2008-07-20 06:35 -
Obviously I am not a fan of Sen. Obama and I will think even less of him if he does go to Europe and criticizes the Europeans for any perceived or actual shortcoming. Because then it's simply a photo op with no substance other than how will the focus groups at home react. And something I learned when visiting Europe is that I am a guest and only the most grasping of boors would criticize their hosts. Now if he wants to defend American actions and interests, when pigs fly, then that is a fitting subject. Comments (5)
Joerg - Atlantic Review
- #7.1 - 2008-07-20 11:27 -
And something I learned when visiting Europe is that I am a guest and only the most grasping of boors would criticize their hosts. Comments (5)
Pat Patterson
- #7.1.1 - 2008-07-20 12:36 -
I wish I could claim that others don't criticize but I just think that under those circumstances its tacky and useless. Plus I do live in a resort town, or it likes to think of it self as such, and by and large foreign tourists do not criticize specifics but rather the absence of things they are used to getting easily at home. Well, the smokers are usually shocked to find themselves outside, rain or shine, all public buildings taking that drag from demon nicotine. Comments (5)
Zyme
- #8 - 2008-07-20 11:49 -
Well a speech at the Column of Victory would sure add to Obama´s rhetorik of "Change" - in peaceful Europe of today. The column was errected honoring Prussia´s victories over Denmark, Austria and France after all. Although I highly doubt we will have comparable disputes in the foreseeable future :) Comments (2)
SC
- #8.1 - 2008-07-21 04:47 -
Strongly disagree, Zyme? Why, I'm shocked! ;) Comments (4)
Zyme
- #8.1.1 - 2008-07-21 07:18 -
I guess the biggest expectation is that he is considered to be European in his mind. Once the news show him repeatedly and rigidly in conflict with EU or national representatives, this expectation will be disappointed. Comments (2)
ADMINISTRATOR
- #9 - 2008-07-20 11:56 -
Please note that by default the comments in this blog are threaded rather than linear, i.e. some of the latest comments and responses to comments are not at the bottom, but in the middle. Comment (1)
franchie
- #10 - 2008-07-21 15:27 -
"someone new for them to hate. You know, some sort of change of scenery" Comments (2)
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