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Tuesday, October 10. 2006America and Europe Drifting ApartPosted by Editors in Fulbright, Transatlantic Relations on Tuesday, October 10. 2006
"A lot of people hope that the ugly rifts between Europe and the U.S. will close when George W. Bush leaves office. Don't bet on it." writes J.F.O. McAllister in Time Magazin:
Ron Asmus, an American who heads the Marshall Fund's Transatlantic Center in Brussels, says: "Europe has made up its mind on George Bush. But in 2008, the page will be turned. Europeans will take a new look at America, and that's when it gets interesting." Well, maybe. But I have been writing about U.S. foreign policy for 30 years and living in Europe for the last seven, and while I hope Asmus is right, I fear there are bigger centrifugal trends at work than a single President and his unpopular war. In historical perspective, that's almost inevitable. The overarching Soviet threat of the cold war was extraordinary; so was the cooperation, from the Marshall Plan to Nato to Fulbright scholarships, it inspired. "The closeness we grew used to of shared perspectives between 1950 and 1990 was the exception rather than the rule," says Tony Judt, a British-born professor of European history at New York University. "Before World War II, no one spoke about 'the West' as a shared cultural area. Americans, mostly of recent European descent, saw themselves as getting away from Europe.Conclusions: Some Americans dismiss Europe entirely. Kenneth Feltman of Radnor Inc., who surveys high-level "decision makers" for corporations and political candidates, says his U.S. decision makers have little sense of connection with Europe. One word always gets them nodding about Europe: "Whiney." Says Feltman: "Americans say, 'We used to worry about what Europe wants, but we can't figure it out. So we stopped worrying.'" (...) Comments
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Don
- #1 - 2006-10-11 00:42 - (Reply)
A perceptive piece. My only criticism of it is that it's a little too respecting of the conventional wisdom, which I would describe as 'The US has estranged it's former allies". Comments ()
Fuchur
- #1.1 - 2006-10-11 14:15 - (Reply)
Itīs the age-old question: Should you grant one vote to each state, or should you weigh the votes proportional to the population of the states. You have the same problem in the Federal Republic of Germany, in the USA, in the EU, and so on. Always there has to be a compromise between the interests of the small states, and the big ones. It is not a matter of European arrogance, itīs simply a problem inherent to any union of states. Comments ()
Don
- #1.1.1 - 2006-10-11 21:42 - (Reply)
Fuchur, the mechanics of how UN voting works don;t concern me as much as the results; over the past 10-15 years there has been a strong growth in sentiment within Eurpe to view the US as evil and to cast the malefactors out - and so it has happened. Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #1.1.1.1 - 2006-10-11 22:12 - (Reply)
@ Don Comments ()
Don
- #1.1.1.1.1 - 2006-10-11 23:55 - (Reply)
"The result is that the US has used the veto more often than France and the UK, i.e. it is primarily the US rather than the European states who prevent UN action." Comments ()
Anonymous
- #1.1.1.1.2 - 2006-10-12 00:00 - (Reply)
"Then how does the EU dominate the UN?" Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #1.1.1.1.2.1 - 2006-10-12 00:23 - (Reply)
Call me stupid, but I still don't get it. Comments ()
Don
- #1.1.1.1.3 - 2006-10-12 01:25 - (Reply)
Joerg, in may 2001 Europe delivered a 'Welcome to the UN' shot to the jaw to the incoming Bush administration. I linked to the main story but it was far from the only instance as about 5 thingd happened. It may have been about Kyoto etc - but it was also driven by the US 'failure' to install King Al as President. Gerhard & co wanted their soulmate to be elected - didn't happen. So they had their petty vengeance instead - and showed us all where the real power lies. Sic Semper Tyrranus and all that. Comments ()
Don
- #2 - 2006-10-11 00:59 - (Reply)
"So how could Europeans be persuaded to stop turning away from the U.S. and engage again? " Comments ()
VinceTN
- #3 - 2006-10-11 01:14 - (Reply)
International legal norms on which Europe now grounds its own peace and security? America is the ground for Europe's peace and security. Without the US a million UN resolutions would do nothing to protect Europe from outsiders or even themselves. League of Nations anyone? Denial is an ugly vice. Comments ()
Don
- #3.1 - 2006-10-11 01:53 - (Reply)
Vince, they don't see it that way. Europe is throwing away 50 years of cross-atlantic goodwill. They will lament it (and blame Bush as ever) when it't gone..... Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #3.2 - 2006-10-11 11:02 - (Reply)
@ VinceTN Comments ()
David
- #3.2.1 - 2006-10-11 16:04 - (Reply)
"Germany is a vital hub for most military transports to Iraq." Comments ()
Assistant Village Idiot
- #4 - 2006-10-11 02:34 - (Reply)
I responded to the same section that Vince did, though a little differently. Comments ()
Don
- #4.1 - 2006-10-12 01:12 - (Reply)
"Germany is a vital hub for most military transports to Iraq." Comments ()
Don
- #5 - 2006-10-11 03:33 - (Reply)
"A first step would be for the U.S. not to demand submission from Europeans or lecture them all the time, but to argue and persuade: not on the basis that the "war on terror" justifies all, but showing respect for the international legal norms on which Europe now grounds its own peace and security." Comments ()
ROA
- #6 - 2006-10-11 17:35 - (Reply)
If Europe and the US are drifting apart, and I agree that they are, isn't this what several European leaders were trying to accomplish after the collapse of the Soviet Union? How else do you explain the treaties that were negotiated in the 1990's? If Europe was really serious about global warming why did they write a treaty whose basic principles had absolutely no support in the US Senate, and therefore no hope of being ratified. Comments ()
Don S
- #7 - 2006-10-12 03:10 - (Reply)
Life Imitates 'Team America' Comments ()
Zyme
- #8 - 2006-10-12 09:31 - (Reply)
Maybe it would be a refreshing perspective to look at the development from a different point of view: Comments ()
Don
- #8.1 - 2006-10-13 02:27 - (Reply)
"Furthermore there is a historical consensus that when germany and russia become strategic partners, most political obstacles in the entire eastern european region vanish." Comments ()
ROA
- #8.2 - 2006-10-13 06:53 - (Reply)
Russia may be a better ally than the US, but don't forget that it has increased its military procurement budget by over seven times during the last few years; attempted to blackmail the Ukraine last winter by shutting off natural gas supplies; had two prominent reformers - Anna Politkovskaya and Andrei Koslov killed recently; warned Poland against hosting a US or NATO missile-defense site; and increased support for Iran and Hezbollah. All the traits you want in an ally. Comments ()
Assistant Village Idiot
- #9 - 2006-10-13 01:36 - (Reply)
Hey, I agree with Zyme! I'm not sure the Poles and Lithuanians share your historical assessment, though. Comments ()
Elzbth
- #10 - 2006-10-16 02:53 - (Reply)
It is also true that "Former Allies have Estranged the U.S." Actually, the U.S. never really viewed Europe as Europeans prefer to remember, nor did the general American population. I detect in your article misty morning memories of days that never were when it comes to describing the trans-Atlantic relationship. It has always been a series of ups and downs, highs and lows, agreements and disagreements, and mutual complaints. Comments ()
JW-Atlantic Review
- #10.1 - 2006-10-16 08:04 - (Reply)
On what kind of military equipment do we rely on so heavily in the Balkans? Comments ()
VinceTN
- #10.1.1 - 2006-10-17 03:52 - (Reply)
With the exception of Japan and Korea, what has America sacrificed for India or Saudi Arabia. Compare that to what we've given Europe and I think it a shame that 80% of the forces in Afghanistan aren't European at minimum. Comments ()
Anonymous
- #10.1.1.1 - 2006-10-17 09:51 - (Reply)
Re Saudi Arabia: Apparently you have not been in the military during the first Gulf War in 1991. Comments ()
VinceTN
- #10.1.1.1.1 - 2006-10-18 00:35 - (Reply)
We were a true shield back then but the effort was little about a bond and all about geopolitical issues. Not that our efforts in Europe weren't as well, but the emotional ties to "saving" Europe were very real. No one really likes Saudi Arabia. Comments ()
Anonymous
- #10.1.1.1.1.1 - 2006-10-18 01:29 - (Reply)
"emotional ties to "saving" Europe were very real." Comments ()
VinceTN
- #10.1.1.1.1.1.1 - 2006-10-18 04:45 - (Reply)
Take as dark a view as you want. You can't dampen all that America has done for Europe. It has never been done before in history and it will likely never be done at that level again. I say all this with pride, not spite towards you. Comments ()
Don
- #10.1.1.1.1.1.2 - 2006-10-18 15:02 - (Reply)
The US went to war with Japan on December 8th, 1941 and Germany declared war on the US on December 11th 1941. Comments ()
Don S
- #10.2 - 2006-10-16 21:41 - (Reply)
Marvelous post, Elzbth! Comments ()
Zyme
- #11 - 2006-10-17 05:05 - (Reply)
"How is the transatlantic relationship that beneficial in the present world?" Comments ()
Bill
- #12 - 2006-10-17 18:49 - (Reply)
I'm not so sure that J.F.O. MacAllister is so "on target" with his analysis of the diverging paths between Europe and America as his article for TIME trys to project. I deal with European and immigrant youth here on a regular basis, and have seen plenty of evidence in their points-of-view and interactions with myself and other Americans that reflect a healthy respect for the U.S.A. and show a willingness to stay bound together in a number of ways. That is not to say there hasn't been a rise in anti-Americanism across Europe, as there certainly has been over the past 5-10 years. It's just not at epidemic proportions... yet. Perhaps things are different in London where Mr. MacAllister presumably lives and works. Comments ()
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Tracked: Oct 11, 21:04
More on the great American-European divide, this time from Time magazine's Jeff McAllister. Some key points: ...I have been writing about U.S. foreign policy for 30 years and living in Europe for the last seven... I fear there are bigger Comments ()
Tracked: Oct 18, 20:18